How to reduce "honey combing" building style
A couple changes will be required:
Increase the health of walls by x5
Increase the health of window-walls by x4
Increase the health of doors by x1.5-x2
Increase the resource requirement to craft a siege golem by x3
This reduces the amount of siege availability clans will have between grinding runs, and it makes buildings more hardy, prefacing the system implementation I will now suggest as the core of this change.
The core system addition needed:
Room size and shape limitations:
A room cannot be enclosed without there being a doorway present, no completely walled in "rooms", or honeycombs.
This dissallows purely walled out honeycombs, forcing doorways into each and every "room".
A room face must be a mixture of atleast 2 doorways, walls and/or window walls wide AND long. So 2x2 minimum to enclose a room.
This allows sectioning of the base still, but severely reduces the ability to honeycomb WITH doorways.
Add these rules to the base-building part of the tutorial.
plswordcount
Comments: 18
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10 Jun, '22
Agustin MergedHoneycombing is not fun nor for the attacker nor for the defender and forces ugly castles.
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10 Jun, '22
Orchid MergedHoneycombing ruins the style of Castles while making it annoying to navigate and interact for castle owners and raiders alike.
I know it's hard to avoid something that's so straightforward as building as many walls/doors as possible, but we have to figure a solution to that.
I think everyone agrees that a Fog of War (https://feedback.playvrising.com/suggestions/306557/castle-fog-of-war) would improve this dramatically. You don't know the Castle's interior design until you've breached it.
But that won't be enough. Larger rooms must be as effective as honeycombing. That's where the problem is. Give ideas here for the devs!
My personal suggestion is to increase the Health of Walls/Doors depending on the size of the Room they are in. The bigger the enclosed room, the higher the health on each of its walls and doors. This would still allow honeycombing, but balance things out if you wanna make actual large rooms. However, the calculation might be hard to make on walls between 2 -
20 Jun, '22
Nobusuma MergedOne of the most used tactics to defend a Castle is to put tons of doors inside. But one of the most interesting features of the game is to be able to design the Castle as you like, adding really interesting Castle seige fights.
Honeycomb tactic do not allow players to enjoy at 1000% the Castle because a lot of times they can be forced to use it.
And to be honest a door of that size should be able to stop a golem of that size LOL!! :P . My be you could add a second type fo door like a Castle entrance, which would take more space and Castle foundation space to open and close (and resources), making this big and more expensive one the ones to be able to stop a golem and sieges. -
21 Jun, '22
Rooibos / C.M. Admin"Address Honeycombing" (suggested by Agustin on 2022-06-10), including upvotes (1) and comments (0), was merged into this suggestion.
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21 Jun, '22
Rooibos / C.M. Admin"The most effective way to protect your Castle is through honeycombing. It has to be changed." (suggested by Orchid on 2022-06-10), including upvotes (1) and comments (0), was merged into this suggestion.
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21 Jun, '22
Rooibos / C.M. Admin"Tackle the honeycomb tactic" (suggested by Nobusuma on 2022-06-20), including upvotes (1) and comments (0), was merged into this suggestion.
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22 Jun, '22
Lokly MergedThe raid/castle siege system is very basic and bare bones. It forces and unhealthy meta of honeycombing a base. Sure, Rust has it too and its a hard issue to solve. I don't have a proper suggestion to it, but wall reinforcement comes as a no brainer.
There are different solutions that can be added on an experimental level. Reinforced walls. Bigger walls that can't have other walls near it but gives you similar protection. Limited amount of doors/walls. Anything, please. Save the game from ugly honeycombs. Rust pro bases look half decent and functionally not always tedious, in V rising its hellish.
Configurable stuff about doors, walls and etc solutions should do.. fine? -
22 Jun, '22
Admin"Meta honeycombing" (suggested by Lokly on 2022-06-22), including upvotes (1) and comments (0), was merged into this suggestion.
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23 Jun, '22
MeyverickAn idea (to probably improve) would be to:
- Makes the blood upkeep cost varies depending the type of floor and the amount of each one. Makes Basic castle floor cost more than Library floor.
- Adding soft and hard wall side; Resistance of walls varies depending the floor it is attacked from. Attacking from Basic floor castle or natural (external) should be harder than Library floor.
- Makes these suggestions customizable in the config file.
The idea is that it will makes the builder to choose between a fortified (aka honeycomb) castle but will requires him to be online often to refill the heart and farm a lot of blood or makes a cool castle without the hassle of farming and being online every 6 hours.
The builder could also makes costless honeycomb (using special floor) but at the cost of resistance. -
25 Jun, '22
ShaunyMore attention should be made to defenses other than walls. Traps, better servants, etc.
Hopefully, some of the T4 NPCs will make better defense servants.
Once a castle has been breached by a siege golem, they should be able to rip through honeycombed walls easily, maybe make the AOE attack of the golem effect walls another layer deep in the honeycomb.
In the T3 holy boss, there are automatic pillars that fire holy sparks at you, maybe there could be similar traps for vampires you can build. -
26 Jun, '22
Sir Vive MergedOn PvP servers with raiding, honeycombing causes most servers to lower the floor limit and reduce castle limits to one.
A small change that could help combat this would be to add a restriction that doesn't allow building walls one-tile away from each other. For another possible solution to allow small hallways, add a restriction that doesn't allow building a wall near a double walled hallway -- maybe no walls within 3-4 tiles of a double layer. I think that would promote players to either build a hallway or stay at least 2 tiles away from another wall so not to cause a 3-4 tile restriction.
These are Just some ideas, but many servers I have played on restrict floor limits for the sole purpose of limiting "honeycombing." The problem with that is it also limits the fun in building nice gardens, graveyards, and courtyards. I think this might combat the honeycombing while also allowing greater floor limits for fun building, even on PvP servers with raiding. -
27 Jun, '22
IngweJust my 2c on the honeycomb meta, make it so that you can't have a 1x1 room unless you sacrifice the HP of the walls. You have to build a room a specific size to give it a boost in HP, and the smaller it is the less HP it has. You can add in another construction type that has to be present in a room like a roof beam or pillar that takes a minimum of 3 tiles, and once you have installed this beam the HP of that room goes up and "fortifies" the room. This allows you to still close of 1 small area because of weird base-building angles, but you know its a weak point.
Some areas allows you to honeycomb half the buildable space in single rooms and just thinking about raiding it makes it no fun. I think the idea of bigger rooms = more HP with an extra structure you have to place is a good idea! -
27 Jun, '22
CarryKotlWe may actually make siege golem stronger every time it breaches into a new room, so having honeycombed castle with 100+ rooms would be no more effective than having a normal castle with 10-15 rooms
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27 Jun, '22
Rooibos / C.M. Admin"Something small to combat *honeycombing*" (suggested by Sir Vive on 2022-06-26), including upvotes (1) and comments (0), was merged into this suggestion.
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29 Jun, '22
Armored22Why not add some type of physic law code. If the rooms are all 1x1 squares connected to many other 1x1 squares they become less and less strong. Like someone also said make the health of walls connected to larger rooms have more health as in these walls hold up a larger part of the roof and become a weight-bearing wall and thus having a lot more health to them.
I think making the base building following some type of rule set like that might make it less worthy in just creating a honey-comb building. People with more smarts can figure out what I'm trying to get at as I cannot. -
27 Oct, '22
KielhorstA few suggestions:
a) Allow building buttresses of some kind on the inside. after architecture research, strengthening the wall section it supports.
b) Walls absorb a flat amount of damage, making them impervious to weak hits. Increasing wall strength increases this amount. Intent is to focus build efforts on making stronger walls, rather than many walls. Will focus attacks toward weak points (gates, windows).
c) To avoid windows everywhere (will hinder defenders due to line of sight):
1. allow jumps through open or glass windows at the same level. Bars and closed shutters prevent it unless destroyed (weaker than walls)
2. explosives do much higher damage to wall sections with openings, rapidly blasting a hole in them. Better only build windows where they can't be reached easily.
3. the aforementioned buttresses may prevent them by blockage
4. arrow loops/slits, impossible to jump through (future mist form might cause trouble though) but still vulnerable to explosives. -
04 Nov, '22
ZlaxMy suggestion for "fixing" honey combing.
Make two new types of walls, outside walls and inner walls.
Outside walls can NOT be enclosed with themselves (ie make a room by itself) unless one side has a full floor to it (ie. can create a roof). Yes this creates the annoyance of having to first put down the floors before you setup the walls, but thats really minor. These walls can then be tuned 100% vs the damage a siege golem can do as the siege golem would only ever encounter one of them, so the time to kill on them can be tuned to exactely what you want it to be.
This would still allow for gardens thats sectioned off from the outside world, you just put down the garden floor tiles first.
Make indoor walls that section off rooms in your castle, these walls have basically no health and will be destroyed by one hit by a siege golem, or a few hits by an attacker, so makeing honey combs with them will be pointless.
Now add an incentive to build these walls too, like with the floor buff -
27 May
UnfawkableHere's a funny, and by funny I mean a disgusting story of this night's raid. There was a particularly toxic player with his 4 man clan torturing players 40 levels below him while max level and juiced up on potions and a shard. He pissed pretty much everyone off, so naturally about a third of the server raided his castle together today.
You'd think they went down like a house of cards right, but nope. They used every exploit in the book. 3 floors of disgusting honey-combs full of doors through which they could attack, then retreat to heal, then counter attack. Used stairs as choke point to Spam void triple explosions with a Spell damage shard in their castle. Had an entire outfit of Brighthaven servants as defenders, and plus a maximum number of Tombs with Banshees. It took 15-20 people an hour and 8 golems to breach the castle and get to the shard. It wasn't fun, it was downright tedious. If 5 teams of people can't breach your shard castle, what are we even doing.